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Critic about t.A.T.u.
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shagratha



Зарегистрирован: 15.05.2006
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СообщениеДобавлено: Чт Янв 24, 2008 8:30 pm    Заголовок сообщения: Ответить с цитатой

I understand what you mean and you have a good point there but when you think about it: it's quite sad we would prefer a lie over the truth AND that it would probably have been better for their career.
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Dean



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СообщениеДобавлено: Чт Янв 24, 2008 8:33 pm    Заголовок сообщения: Ответить с цитатой

It is sad that a lie would have been better accepted than the truth. But sometimes the truth just isnt as good!! Like when I found out Santa Claus wasn't real Sad
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Annushka



Зарегистрирован: 07.10.2007
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Откуда: Funkytown

СообщениеДобавлено: Чт Янв 24, 2008 8:44 pm    Заголовок сообщения: Ответить с цитатой

Цитата:
Instead they go with "we nver said we were lesbians", when they blatently did, and ALOT of people feel let down!


Exactly. "We never said we were lesbians" was the DM promo tour catch phrase. That doesn't even make sense! A number of early interviews have quotes that directly contradict the above. I'll NEVER understand why they continue to say something that is patently untrue. It's disappointing and quite frankly just seems like a stupid thing to do.

Цитата:
It was handled badly from start to end, simple as.

Couldn't have said it better.

Цитата:
Like when I found out Santa Claus wasn't real


Shock WHAT???? Shock
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argos



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СообщениеДобавлено: Чт Янв 24, 2008 9:20 pm    Заголовок сообщения: Ответить с цитатой

Dean писал(а):
It is sad that a lie would have been better accepted than the truth. But sometimes the truth just isnt as good!!

I think it wasn't really wrong to tell the truth (which isn't even true), it's more about the presentation of it. There is always a way to do it in a way which doesn't hurt people's feelings. Let's try an example, maybe not the best, but anyway...

"It was a fantasy, connected with this swedish movie - two lesbian schoolgirls. On stage and in front of the cameras we were those girls. We tried to play these characters as good as possible and we were happy that people enjoyed this fantasy, but nobody in our team did expect that we would be taken so serious and when we realized it, we didn't know how to react properly. We continued with the game, but more and more we felt as liars, until we decided to tell the truth...blahblahblah"

Most fans would have understood, I guess, and even if it wasn't completely honest, they wouldn't have lost their credibility as they did with their defensive denying, which makes the whole case a double lie.
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RowerB



Зарегистрирован: 19.11.2004
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СообщениеДобавлено: Чт Янв 24, 2008 9:25 pm    Заголовок сообщения: Ответить с цитатой

I think their image could have been called lesbian, but they have denied that even though Lena said they were going to move away from that image in the Russian Hour documentary of 2004. I don’t think what they are saying now is all that stupid.

Dean писал(а):
Instead they go with "we nver said we were lesbians", when they blatently did, and ALOT of people feel let down! :(

I’ve not seen them ever say they were lesbians in a serious interview.

The line they’ve been spinning in the D & M era ties in well with what Ivan said in the Spielberg interview of 2003:
Цитата:
Ivan: t.A.T.u. is the only project worldwide that clearly proves that friendship equals love. Do you understand? Friendship equals love. That's a very important message, and humanity needs it. Not sex is love, but friendship! In t.A.T.u. it's about a relationship between girls where the border is broken, and that makes love more noticeable. It's more or less friendship in its most pure form.
That's what people are lacking; the world has waited for that. That's what made t.A.T.u. famous. Not some labels or promos. People just simply need that kind of message.
The word 'love' was faked and misused, do you understand?

http://forum.tatysite.net/showthread.php?p=142301&highlight=Spiegel#post142301

Maybe there is nothing to moan about.
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Joopy



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СообщениеДобавлено: Чт Янв 24, 2008 9:36 pm    Заголовок сообщения: Ответить с цитатой

I can understand the message of t.A.T.u. and I love it with all of my heart, but Yulia and Lena could have made a better statement than "we never pretended to be lesbians, we just love eachother". They could have said "we never pretended to be lesbians, we support love without boundaries and wanted to show what people refused to see". I don't know... I don't know... but it's true, they never said they were lesbians in a serious interview although they have joked about it in funny interviews.
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2-J



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СообщениеДобавлено: Чт Янв 24, 2008 11:16 pm    Заголовок сообщения: Ответить с цитатой

They used to kiss each other in every performance of ATTSS for God's sake. As well as saying quite a few times that they were actually in love in a lesbian way (occasionally the statements were COMPLETELY unambiguous). Tatysite at one point had a feature which stated that a clause in the girls' contracts was 'tatu is a lesbian band'. You can see why Ivan wanted that included. To deny they were marketed, and went along with, the image of the band as a lesbian band is simply revisionism.

Yes, Rower B, there are intriguing quotes from that era but really on balance... many times they said / did things which were meant to unambiguously suggest they were lesbians.

You know, I love tatu for the fact that happened. It's one of things that attracted me to the band. The spectacle. It's very Sex Pistols. A media rollercoaster. An interesting story.
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I Wanna Eat Choco Bars...



Зарегистрирован: 11.07.2005
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СообщениеДобавлено: Чт Янв 24, 2008 11:59 pm    Заголовок сообщения: Ответить с цитатой

i remember seeing something on MTV about t.A.T.u. before ATTSS was released in the US...
at the very end of it...
they showed an interview with the 2 of them...
and Lena blatantly said...
we arent gay; we are great friends, and we love eachother like sisters, but we arent lesbians...
sounds like they were honest to me...
plus whenever t.A.T.u. has come up in any conversation ive had with anyone...
everyone thinks it was really hot that they kissed...
but that there was no way in hell they were lesbians, let alone in love...
ive yet to find a single American who legitimately thought they were gay...
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RowerB



Зарегистрирован: 19.11.2004
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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Янв 25, 2008 12:06 am    Заголовок сообщения: Ответить с цитатой

2-J писал(а):
They used to kiss each other in every performance of ATTSS for God's sake. As well as saying quite a few times that they were actually in love in a lesbian way (occasionally the statements were COMPLETELY unambiguous). Tatysite at one point had a feature which stated that a clause in the girls' contracts was 'tatu is a lesbian band'. You can see why Ivan wanted that included. To deny they were marketed, and went along with, the image of the band as a lesbian band is simply revisionism.

Yes, Rower B, there are intriguing quotes from that era but really on balance... many times they said / did things which were meant to unambiguously suggest they were lesbians.

Well I missed those things. All I saw was them trying to keep the “are they, aren’t they” debates raging.

I have not seen the feature which you claim stated that a clause in the girls' contracts was 'tatu is a lesbian band', so I won’t take that into account.

There is currently a fast paced potted “True history of tatu” being posted in insider’s blog. Maybe we’ll learn something there. For the next exciting instalment, keep an eye on this thread: http://www.tatu.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10105&start=0
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Annushka



Зарегистрирован: 07.10.2007
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Откуда: Funkytown

СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Янв 25, 2008 12:22 am    Заголовок сообщения: Ответить с цитатой

Цитата:
ive yet to find a single American who legitimately thought they were gay...


Whether they are or aren't lesbians is a completely separate issue. A lot of people could have cared less if they actually WERE lesbians because they were two hot chicks making out.

It's the fact that they said they were lesbians, essentially made a career of it, and then backpedaled as if the whole thing never happened.
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Dean



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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Янв 25, 2008 12:42 am    Заголовок сообщения: Ответить с цитатой

I Wanna Eat Choco Bars... писал(а):

ive yet to find a single American who legitimately thought they were gay...


I've yet to find *anybody* who legitimately thought they were lesbians. But what people perceived was that they were *pretending to be lesbians*, so whether they believed it or not isn't the issue.

The issue is how t.A.T.u. and their management then handled the perceived reality of the group. The minute they said "we are *not* lesbians" and got boyfriends, is when everyone who perceived them to be lesbians felt betrayed and thought of them as lying about their sexuality and relationship to just be famous.

Maybe they didn't say seriously they were lesbians, and maybe thought they were to begin with. But the perception of the group was obviously far more important than what people really knew about the band.

If they then didn't want to be perceived as fakes - they shouldda continued this "alternate" image that people had invented for the girls.
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I Wanna Eat Choco Bars...



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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Янв 25, 2008 1:28 am    Заголовок сообщения: Ответить с цитатой

Annushka писал(а):
It's the fact that they said they were lesbians, essentially made a career of it, and then backpedaled as if the whole thing never happened.

well you seem to be ignoring the first part of my post...
Цитата:
i remember seeing something on MTV about t.A.T.u. before ATTSS was released in the US...
at the very end of it...
they showed an interview with the 2 of them...
and Lena blatantly said...
we arent gay; we are great friends, and we love eachother like sisters, but we arent lesbians...
sounds like they were honest to me...

their very first interview in the US, before ATTSS was released...
thats what they said...
they made it quite clear they werent gay...
they said they werent...
they look more honest than you do right about now... Craving
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VML



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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Янв 25, 2008 1:42 am    Заголовок сообщения: Ответить с цитатой

I Wanna Eat Choco Bars... писал(а):
Annushka писал(а):
It's the fact that they said they were lesbians, essentially made a career of it, and then backpedaled as if the whole thing never happened.

well you seem to be ignoring the first part of my post...
Цитата:
i remember seeing something on MTV about t.A.T.u. before ATTSS was released in the US...
at the very end of it...
they showed an interview with the 2 of them...
and Lena blatantly said...
we arent gay; we are great friends, and we love eachother like sisters, but we arent lesbians...
sounds like they were honest to me...

their very first interview in the US, before ATTSS was released...
thats what they said...
they made it quite clear they werent gay...
they said they werent...
they look more honest than you do right about now... Craving


Do you have a clip of that interview?
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I Wanna Eat Choco Bars...



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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Янв 25, 2008 3:39 am    Заголовок сообщения: Ответить с цитатой

VML писал(а):
Do you have a clip of that interview?

nope...
i honestly dont...
and it was several years ago (before substances entered my life, mind you)...
so for all i really know it could have been very different from what i remember...
afterall if i dont have real, dolid, tangible evidence, its not like i can act like im absolutely right cuz with these 2 theres an amazing chance im dead wrong...
in all likelihood...
it was probably the "everyone thinks we are gay, but we just love eachother" thing...
i was a youngin at the time, and i might have interpretted it differently than i would now, or how i would if i had any previous exposure to them before i saw the interview...
whatever they said it led me to believe they werent gay and they were just doing it to arouse...
that was the intent of most of the gender-bending girls i had known at the time...
they kissed girls in public...
but in private they had sex with the boys who watched them...
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Annushka



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Откуда: Funkytown

СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Янв 25, 2008 9:16 am    Заголовок сообщения: Ответить с цитатой

Цитата:
their very first interview in the US, before ATTSS was released...
thats what they said...
they made it quite clear they werent gay...
they said they werent...
they look more honest than you do right about now...


I've never seen that interview...

That's kind of worse isn't it? To announce you aren't gay and then release a single that essentially capitalizes on a lesbian image? I can't blame two girls for being seduced by the idea of stardom. People have played all kinds of roles in show business.

Dean made an excellent point about perception versus reality. Despite the reality of their sexual preferences, audiences were made to perceive them in a certain way. I can see why some people felt slightly betrayed and disappointed to have that image shattered.

But hey...

I'll admit, I never took them very seriously anyway. Who cares at the end of the day? They're fun! That's the point right?

Wide smile
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Joopy



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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Янв 25, 2008 4:58 pm    Заголовок сообщения: Ответить с цитатой

I Wanna Eat Choco Bars... писал(а):

it was probably the "everyone thinks we are gay, but we just love eachother" thing...

I think I know the clip you are talking about, was it this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meYAcDd18vY
Enjoy!
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2-J



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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Янв 25, 2008 6:02 pm    Заголовок сообщения: Ответить с цитатой

return_to_hades писал(а):
The girls are in a fine mess now though. They cannot be in any relationship without raising questions.


Only from fans who like to indulge themselves with nice little fantasies, or are too young / uncritical enough not to know better.

The rest of the world (well, those who still gave any mind to the subject at all) just accepted reality back at the end of 2003 and got on with it.
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2-J



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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Янв 25, 2008 7:14 pm    Заголовок сообщения: Ответить с цитатой

return_to_hades писал(а):
2-J писал(а):
return_to_hades писал(а):
The girls are in a fine mess now though. They cannot be in any relationship without raising questions.


Only from fans who like to indulge themselves with nice little fantasies, or are too young / uncritical enough not to know better.

The rest of the world (well, those who still gave any mind to the subject at all) just accepted reality back at the end of 2003 and got on with it.


Oh I always forget that there are enlightened ones as yourself who are completely aware of reality and have absolute unwavering knowledge. Guide us oh almighty all knowing.


Well any abstract philosophical debate aside, your comment was outrageous in that it suggested that the girls getting into heterosexual relationships now always raises questions in general.

No, it raises questions amongst a subset of t.A.T.u. fans (most of whom are either demonstrably young or, in some cases, admit they are embracing fantasy and say they are fine with that - well, if the Yulen thread is anything to go by). A large proportion of fans accept that the overall presentation of the band was an act, and as for the general public, those who pay any mind to it at all, well the suspicion that they were fakes was there from the start so they were only too ready to accept the explanation that it was faked. Certainly every non-fan media piece I've read since they 'came out' as straight has reflected this view.

My response to you wasn't calling into a question a philosophical point, just pointing out your comment grossly misrepresented the situation. "They cannot be in any relationship without raising questions." is just false. For most people, they perfectly well can.
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Jon



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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Янв 25, 2008 7:27 pm    Заголовок сообщения: Ответить с цитатой

All this talking / debating makes me glad the main thing I like is the music and not the image and how its percieved Craving

Lucky me
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Arnaudfrenchy



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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Янв 25, 2008 10:54 pm    Заголовок сообщения: Ответить с цитатой

Jon писал(а):
All this talking / debating makes me glad the main thing I like is the music and not the image and how its percieved Craving

Lucky me



Finally I think the same.
I admit i was interested by the lesbian image at the beginning but what kept me loving t.A.T.u. is the music and these two charming and pretty woman that are Yulia and Lena.
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